Our dear friends at Park Slope Parents raise an interesting issue in a series of emails about whether the little ones can play in the hallways of the condo and what to do if a mean neighbor or (gasp) the all-powerful condo board isn’t into it. Here’s the illuminating email:
I’ve lived in a Brooklyn condo for about 2 years, and during that time my son went from a crawling baby to a high energy 3 y.o. We live in a building with 56 units, and there are currently 35 kids and counting. We have the odd misfortune of being the only parents on our particular floor. All the floors with kids have some playtime in the hallway. Everyone I know tries to respect neighbors by having 15-20 minutes of play b/w 10 am and 7 pm. One couple on our floor finds it abhorrent that we would use the hallway for play, at anytime or on any day. They claim it’s extremely tacky and disruptive to their “luxury living”, that they’re sorry we “couldn’t afford a bigger apartment” so we wouldn’t “use the hallway as an extension” of our place. While we’re in the hallway a few times a week, it’s never for long, and if my kids get too loud, I bring them back inside.
Are there any laws concerning children playing for short intervals in condominium hallways? Or should neighbors just work it out? I’m actually on my condo board, and I’m not aware of any rule/law about this, even in our own bylaws. Our neighbor is claiming that he has the right to peace and quiet by law, and that our children should only be in the hallway when walking to and from the elevator.
There’s this:
I grew up in NYC, in an apartment building, and the hallway is not for playtime. In the coop where we currently live, I have noticed that other small children are allowed to play in the hallways. I think its really weird and have instructed my nanny to not do that with my girls. Its extremely inconsiderate since everyone can hear EVERYTHING in the hallway.
And there is this:
There may be a liability issue too. I know that’s not what those neighbors care about but, heaven forbid, if your kids got hurt in the hallway or near the elevator, the condo may be responsible. I’m actually surprised that your condo bylaws do not address this. Usually co-ops and condos have some kind of rule about residents not using the “common areas” for storage or other unauthorized purposes, as well as rules about noises. Believe me, I know how hard it is to keep a 3-year-old boy stuck in a small apartment in the winter, so I definitely feel your pain! But I’m afraid your neighbors probably have the right to object.
Having dealt with the agony of children running wild in the halls, we say keep them inside. Better still, move to one of the new condos in Williamsburg where very wise developers have put playrooms in the buildings.
42 responses so far ↓
1 james // Jan 6, 2009 at 9:51 am
Typical sense of entitlement Park Slope parenting- Using your apartment buildings hallways as a daycare center. These people are sickening, please move to Connecticut already. Can’t even belive they would ask such a dumb question.
2 Janet // Jan 6, 2009 at 9:58 am
The poster’s neighbor is obviously skewing the whole issue by seeing this as having something to do with “luxury living”. The hallway is simply not a playground for your “high energy” three year old–the playground is!! If kids are running, they’re making noise, so unless you’re on the first floor, you’re bothering your downstairs neighbors if they run in your apartment, too.
By the way, would you have appreciated the noise from the hallway when your son was still taking naps?
3 WB parent // Jan 6, 2009 at 10:04 am
Seriously? This woman seriously thinks this is “OK” responsible behavior as a parent? People like this make normal non-entitled folks look bad-as usual. Unreal.
4 Anonymous // Jan 6, 2009 at 10:18 am
Would you use your public hallway as a dog run??? Clean out that baby’s room and make it a play space or take the kid to THE PARK!!! I agree with your neighbors. How entitled do you feel that you can let your kid use the hall as a private play area?
5 david // Jan 6, 2009 at 10:19 am
kids in the hall? forget it. it’s rude and presumptive. “if my kids get too loud i bring them in.” who left YOU in charge of what’s loud or not in a common space? their YOUR kids, keep them in YOUR apartment.
on the other hand, if you’ve got a dozen or so pomeranians who simply MUST run around for a while, why then 1/2 an hour of supervised running (and barking) in the hall is FINE.
just cause you love your kids doesn’t mean other people should have to.
6 pkripper // Jan 6, 2009 at 10:20 am
As an apartment dweller and father of a 3 year old and a 5 year old, and as someone who grew up in apartments. The answer is that it is NOT ok to let your kids run around in the halls. Dress them up right and get them outside.
7 these nuts // Jan 6, 2009 at 10:32 am
I say anonymously hang up fliers advertising for a grown-up themed party exclusively in the hallway of the floor you live on.
Suggest adult themed attire, beverages and mention that there will be “high-energy” dancing and music.
“Come celebrate the use of our luxury building’s hallway as an alternative space to drink, dance & party the night away!”
Maybe advertise this as a weekly dance party.
I wouldn’t suggest you actually have a party, but it would be enough to get the point across in a nice passive-aggressive and legal way.
Gotta get creative with your anger.
8 el nico // Jan 6, 2009 at 12:13 pm
really!? Not to participate in another one of these insipid Park Slope parental “issue” discussions, but get yer damn kids out the hall. Take them to the park, or have your nanny do it for you, or move somewhere with a backyard.
9 frank // Jan 6, 2009 at 2:10 pm
i think this parent and the rest of the family in that condo must be inconsiderate to their fellow neighbors. i have a two year old energetic daughter, and i would never let her play in the hallway. why not go to each other’s apt and have playdates? i guess this is why i won’t move to park slope. just so many free minded people who are not considerate with other people except for their own “right” thinking.
10 Joe // Jan 6, 2009 at 2:11 pm
“Park Slope Issue”? Why must you assume this ridiculous parent is in Park Slope?
There are inconsiderate parents all over Brooklyn — the poster only said that they live in a 56-unit Brooklyn condo. (perhaps the Toy Factory lofts?) https://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/176-johnson-street-brooklyn
11 alan // Jan 6, 2009 at 2:23 pm
take ’em to the bar in greenpoint, i say
12 Jessica // Jan 6, 2009 at 3:33 pm
In response to Joe, the post does state that this is from a Park Slope Parents email chain. Therefore, I think it is fair to infer that this emailer is from Park Slope.
13 Jim // Jan 6, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Another false controversy about parents and children. If you read the responses from the other parents – you will see that they all say what the people here are also saying – keep your kids in your own apartment. Of course – they say it in a much less asshole-ish and dickish way.
14 mag // Jan 6, 2009 at 4:23 pm
i read this posting on park slope parents, and have been waiting to see it here! the audacity and arrogance of these masters of the universe! nice to see they are teaching their kids how important they are… unbelievable!
signed,
a parent
ps this is off topic, but the posting on PSP re: how much tip those poor delivery guys from fresh direct needs to be found & posted here…great theater!
15 Chris // Jan 6, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Of course it’s ok to let your little kids run around in the hallway for a while. But that doesn’t mean all day and it doesn’t mean they can make a disturbing racket. The kids in our building do this in moderation and it’s no problem.
If there’s a dispute… resolve it like adults.
Who in their right mind expects children to walk around like tranquil little zombies? What a bunch of dicks.
16 80's Lover! // Jan 6, 2009 at 4:51 pm
it may look ugly from the outside but the novo has a children’s playroom (and an adult lounge).
the hallways are definitely not for playtime.. that’s the most ridiculous thing i’ve ever heard.
17 Phil // Jan 6, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Should we get the police for this problem? Call 311? Look take your kids to the playground. Or keep them indoors. My co-op has bylaws that says no playing in hallways, no loitering in hallways, no smoking in hallways, no drug taking, no drinking, etc. and no fraternizing. If someone is injured in the hallway of an apartment building who is at fault? When I lived in a rented apartment the landlord was also very strict on this matter. So don’t get your snoot in a snit. It’s only common sense. What’s the next thing that will happen? Dog owners will then want their high energy Dalmatians to run in the hallways. . . ? Please, courtesy for all.
18 Patricia // Jan 6, 2009 at 8:23 pm
News flash to Chris: Of course no one expects children to behave like tranquil little zombies, but many of us DO expect their parents to behave like grownups! THAT means teaching the kids how to behave politely in public. And that means using an inside voice in hallways. And not considering the hallway your very own playspace.
19 D // Jan 6, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Admittedly the hallway is not a playground, BUT REALLY, 20-30 mins during the day is no big deal. If you require absolute silence for the entire day move an f-ing monastery. I thank god our neighbors are friendly and supportive — they actually like children.
20 red hooker // Jan 6, 2009 at 9:18 pm
That is why those of use who grew up in apts. moved to the suburbs to give our kids open spaces quiet streets and swimming pools. Brooklyn of old is gone when kids could run and ride bikes outside. TOO many cars no mothers around to watch the kids.
21 PSP poster // Jan 7, 2009 at 8:54 am
Can you please post my response to my original post as well? I actually got some great feedback from PSP on this issue…
Re: Condo rules/etiquette involving children?
Thanks to everyone who responded to my post! We ultimately decided to
discontinue hallway play to simply try to coexist in peace with our
neighbors. They brought our playtime noise to our attention in such
an awful way that our shock at their behavior overshadowed the fact
that we were actually being really inconsiderate in the hallway.
After a few days, the smoke cleared, and we realized what had to be
done. We actually feel rather stupid not seeing it before now! Our
neighbors say they’ve been giving us hints for a YEAR. Unfortunately,
those “hints” were just mean looks. It’s just sad that 2 months ago
they came to my son’s b-day party, and now I’m not sure we’ll exchange
6 words in 2009.
An interesting side note is that the couple who are voicing complaints
are actually pregnant. Perhaps that will change things in a year or
two, but for now, we’ll have fun on the 5th floor where short play
times are encouraged. I’m also going to try to get a playroom in the
building, since it looks like it could help everyone out – not just
the families, but the neighbors as well!
22 Precious // Jan 7, 2009 at 10:14 am
PSP, so even though you just said,
“After a few days, the smoke cleared, and we realized what had to be
done. We actually feel rather stupid not seeing it before now! ”
you are just going to move the playtime to the 5th floor hallway? Your response to your original post is full of contradictions.
Also, as a parent, if I lived on your floor, I would not be “on your side” just because I have a kid. It’s totally inconsiderate to let kids have play time in a common hallway. I think it’s a shame you have written off your neighbors over this issue. I think you should grow up. Really.
23 Booper // Jan 7, 2009 at 11:05 am
Since we all have to share the hallways, let’s compromise:
2nd Floor: Children’s Playground
3rd Floor: Dog Agility Track and Dog Run
4th Floor: Disco Dancing
5th Floor: Loud Techno music and Raves
6th Floor: “The 420 Lounge”
Is this OK with you Park Slope Momzilla?
24 Janet // Jan 7, 2009 at 1:39 pm
It’s still not clear why one’s children can’t play inside their own apartment, by themselves or also on what are unfortunately referred to as “play dates”. Is the condo too “nice” (i.e., not childproofed), making the hallway, with its lack of breakables (except, of course, for the kids) much more appealing?
25 Michael // Jan 7, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Hang on Precious & Booper, if residents on a certain floor in a building have all agreed around rules for kids to play in their hallway why would you be against that? Are both of you saying that if the people on your floor all agreed to letting children play in the hallway for a certain amount of time, you would never let your children join? Or better yet, if you didn’t live on that floor would you make an effort to not allow it to happen?
Now you guys are just judging for the sake of judging. If consenting adults have made a decision and it doesn’t negatively affect anyone else, then that is there decision.
26 Brooklyn Knows // Jan 7, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Honor Thy Neighbor: One Family Discontinues Hallway Play
So how do people with kids in co-ops, condos and rentals co-exist with those without children, who don’t appreciate the noise generated by the pitter patter of little feet, especially in public spaces?
A post on Park Slope Parents brought this vexing issue to light. One mom has resolved the problem she had with her neighbors by deciding to “discontinue hallway play.” She even had a revelation:
They brought our playtime noise to our attention in such an awful way that our shock at their behavior overshadowed the fact that we were actually being really inconsiderate in the hallway.
After a few days, the smoke cleared, and we realized what had to be
done. We actually feel rather stupid not seeing it before now! Our
neighbors say they’ve been giving us hints for a YEAR. Unfortunately,
those “hints” were just mean looks. It’s just sad that 2 months ago
they came to my son’s b-day party, and now I’m not sure we’ll exchange
6 words in 2009.
So I guess it’s about communication. It sounds like the angry neighbors should have brought up the matter earlier. Guess what? The complaing couple is pregnant. The PSP member wonders:
Perhaps that will change things in a year or two, but for now, we’ll have fun on the 5th floor where short play times are encouraged. I’m also going to try to get a playroom in the
building, since it looks like it could help everyone out – not just the families, but the neighbors as well!
27 willbilly // Jan 7, 2009 at 2:57 pm
wow PSP Poster is unbelievable clueless
28 Mommy dearest // Jan 7, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Precious, I agree with the other poster who said you are just judging for the sake of judging. It looks like a war of of the breeders vs. non-breeders here. I used to feel the same way about kids until I had them! Parents are sick of being judged constantly by infertile, angry people. The park sloper has some good points, though she may not be the most self-aware person. Let us raise our kids in peace! You may be a parent someday and you’ll appreciate a little understanding. Sanity takes on a whole new meaning when you haven’t had a full night’s sleep in a few years!
29 Former Manhattanite // Jan 7, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Wow. I can’t believe the tone of the comments. One would’ve thought the PSP posters asked whether occasional S&M activities in the hallway were appropriate….But seriously though, why do we always make an elephant out of a mole and do so in the most disrespectful way possible? Is this any more model behavior for the children? I used to live in a low key co-op on the Upper East side in manhattan (closer to the river, not the fancy ones) and there were a few toddlers on our floor and I must say it was nice to hear children’s laughter outside and it was a nice way for parents to interact with each other. These days, few people know even their next door neighbour. But if the noise got too loud, we could just politely ask people to either keep quieter or to bring the kids in. No need for dirty looks or passive aggressiveness. Just a mature dialogue. It the concerned neighbours are being polite and feel that their requests are not being considered, bring it to the attention of the board. It gets resolved pretty quickly. Again, this is just a simple matter of a rational dispute resolution. Whether or not it is ok to let kids play in the hallway is not a question that can be answered in abstract. It depends on your building, your floor, your neighbors. You live among people, behave like you are in a community and speak about issues, rather than being judgmental and vitriolic.
30 Precious // Jan 7, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Hey Mommy Dearest, as I mentioned above, I am a parent. I have a 5 mont old, but I suppose your response to that will be well “wait until she’s a toddler”. I’m sorry, I just find this PSP behavior and the parenting represented very irresponsible. I am entitled to that opinion- with or without a child. One thing that really bothers me is the division between couples (or singles) with children and those without. Oddly, it is usually prompted by the individual who is a parent in my experience thus far. Pretty sad.
31 gg // Jan 7, 2009 at 4:57 pm
People like PSPoster are the reason I left NYC after 35 years.
Get a house in the poconos and commute!
32 Michael // Jan 7, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Former Manhattanite has successfully made the most mature and rationale post on this topic. All I can say is that 100% agree and this topic is officially closed for me. Thanks.
33 Lolli // Jan 8, 2009 at 12:01 am
Precious, you’ve demonstrated only that you’re jealous. Wouldn’t it be nice to live in a luxury coop, push your five month around in a baby jogger city mini, the new status pram, not have to feet that your freelance income has virtually disappeared in the awful economy? Call Park Slope Parents whatever you want, but the tone of your attack shows only that you feel powerless and inadequate by comparison.
I’m sick of people hating on Park Slope when the services, shops, and, yes, the people, are a huge draw to everyone floating on the outskirts–Gowanus, prospect heights, etc.
34 D // Jan 8, 2009 at 10:59 am
Way to go Former Manhattanite. Issue closed. But Hate continues…
35 alice kay // Jan 25, 2009 at 8:58 pm
I totally agree that kids should have a little supervised time in the hallway now and then. I understand that most of the children in this building spend a few minutes in the hallway during the day. It is unbelievable that adults find children’s voices so irritating.
36 Molly // Jan 27, 2009 at 7:03 pm
This is really interesting that it would be an issue. I’ve lived in brownstones all my life and never ever would think of playing in the hallway myself or letting my children do that. It’s just common sense, respect for others, and following the law, whether written or not. I honestly can’t imagine my landlord allowing this either, and if he did, he’d be one of the unusual ones without a doubt. I agree too, that children should be bundled up, taken out to the park and enjoy Park Slope, who wouldn’t?
37 Angry Parent. // Feb 10, 2009 at 3:51 pm
WOW.
That’s all I can utter.
You think you can simply let your child run up and down the halls to work off energy?!
WOW.
It’s called a playground.
But since you are too much of a pompous uppity ass I guess you’ll just keep your brat indoors.
WOW.
It’s not that they dont like your child.
It’s that your neighbors dont like hearing annoying screaming going up and down an area wich
1.You dont own
2.Cant put your kids in
3.Is not supposed to be loud.
But your just a pompus uppity bratty bitch from the Giddy up.
Good luck with parenting.
38 Deepo // May 30, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Woohoo – great stuff. As the parent of an 18 year old who grew up in our first floor apartment of park slope, I can say I never ever considered utilizing the hall (and stairs) as a playground. For crying out loud – Park Slope is the nexus of fabulous play spaces for kids. There’s Prospect Park and all its playgrounds and activities, the Brooklyn Children’s Museum and the Prospect Park Zoo. They’re either free or very low cost. Sheeesh.
39 TAS // Jul 18, 2009 at 11:12 am
For all those that have a problem with the noise, move out of the city and go live in a secluded area somewhere! Were you not a child once before?
40 Alex // Aug 4, 2009 at 7:15 am
Booper…
Where do you live?
I’d like to check of the sixth floor.
41 CC // Oct 1, 2009 at 2:24 am
The arrogance of parents feeling entitled to have their kids play in the hallways is just incredible. Get your own house with a lawn in the suburbs you idiots!
42 Jo // Nov 27, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Why do irresponsible parents always use the same excuses for bad parenting? Were you not a child once before? You must hate kids? Nothing to do with the fact that they are using the halls like they owned them, being totally inconsiderate and not teaching their kids how to behave. Get off your lazy ass and take your kids out where they may also get some fresh air as well!
Shame on you!
Glad to see there are also responsible parents out there as well!!!